REPEAT – do NOT accept a provisional ballot at the polling place Nov. 4
Thu, Oct 23, 2008
I didn’t realize that advising voters to refuse to play the GOP’s vote suppression game, by refusing to vote provisional at the polling place, would be such a debatable issue. Since it appears to be, I need to dig deeper.
The main objection to this advice (which by the way, is also the advice of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.) is that somehow a poll worker forcing a voter to vote provisional is always legitimate, and should be “obeyed”.
OBEYED!
That is just farce. Provisional ballots went from occasional occurrences, to overbroad burdens on a fundamental right ensconsed into the law, to the entire GOP vote suppression strategy, for a reason. They will not be counted in their entirety, under the best circumstance. And in the case of a recount, they will be ripped to shreds by litigation and will not be counted in even larger numbers.
To suggest that “obedience” to provisional ballot demands at the polling place is required, when the whole point of the demand is to reduce Democratic votes based on racial targeting, is probably rolling Martin Luther King over in his grave.
Anastasia in a comment thread at PB runs down the “obedience” arguments, and they are all PURE fantasy.
They CANNOT have challengers in the polling place; the polling location coordinator will call the police and have them escorted out. Only observers are aloud, they must have proper documentation, and they may only observe, not interfere with the voting process in any way. the only ones allowed to challenge a voter are the actual polling judges.
Yes, it’s true that challengers are no longer legal in Ohio, and will not be accredited, but If you think a GOP observer is there to “only observe” you are dreaming. They are there to steer ballots provisional, by intimidating not only voters, but GOP poll workers by their mere presence, who will certainly have been instructed to stuff that provisional box as much as they possibly can.
More fantasy.
Getting in a big fight and DEMANDING a regular ballot without asking why you are being asked to vote provisional is pointless. Too many people assume the worst and just want to get in a big fight for their “rights” without taking the time to deal with whatever the issue is.
No one is advising people to not “take the time to deal with whatever the issue is.” Quite the contrary. Take all the time you can. And then demand to vote a regular ballot, and don’t leave until you do. Anastasia blindly runs into the reason for this advice, without even knowing it.
There are two basic reasons you will be asked to vote provisional. One is if you are not in the poll book. If that is the case, PLEASE go to the help table and make sure you are in the proper precinct and polling place, never mind what you THINK. You just can’t vote a regular ballot in a precinct when you are not in the poll book. Most provisionals at this point are people who are not in the poll book but insist they live in a certain precinct. If you actually DO live in the precinct (make double and triple sure), you’ll have to vote the provisional. Do it. It will count.
Being in the “wrong” precinct almost always means being at the wrong TABLE in the RIGHT building. I saw it all day, constantly, in 2004. A polling place with multiple precincts would have people getting into long lines but ending up at a table for the wrong precinct. ZING! Vote provisional – the ballot will NEVER be counted because it was cast at the wrong TABLE, even though the RIGHT table is literally across the room. If voters follow RFK Jr.’s advice, and mine, they will get to the right table and cast a REGULAR ballot. If they follow Anastasia’s, their vote will never be counted.
And by the fucking way – Do you honestly think that a GOP poll worker is going to help the voter go to the right table? Of course not….they will happily provide a provisional ballot, steer the voter to think it’s all just fine, and then the voter will cast a provisional ballot into the wrong precinct. When the ballots get counted, that ballot will have been cast in a precinct in which the voter is not listed. GOP wins. Vote erased.
Next fantasy please.
The other case would be if you don’t have ID or aren’t willing to show it. Just take the damned ID, OK?
Umm….these ID requirements are so broad, a poll-worker can make up any reason they want to claim the ID is unsuitable. RFK notes that about 1 in 10 voters don’t have a driver’s license. That percentage is way higher in Democratic precincts, and even higher in black precincts. So the ID presented will be a gold mine for a GOP poll worker to find something wrong with it, and force the vote provisional. When that provisional is examined, it will have the “faulty” ID info on the envelope, which of course will not match perfectly with the voter list, and ZING. GOP wins, vote erased.
Next fantasy please.
There will be cases where it is marked in the poll book that a person must vote provisional, I assume due to discrepancies.
Assume? Discrepancies? ROFLROFLROFLROFL!!! There’s your loophole for your Mack truck. I’d love to see how many more of these “flagged” voters there are in 2008 vs. 2004. If a voter is going to let some flag next to their name on the list stand between them and their vote, then this country’s democracy is dead. Those flagged names give a GOP poll worker the freedom to make up whatever reason they want to force a voter at a polling place to vote provisional, no matter how well the ID matches the list.
Next fantasy please.
One other case you will be asked to vote provisional is if you requested an absentee ballot or voted at the BoE and show up at the polls. If you did the later, you’re committing voter fraud. If your absentee ballot was never received, vote the damned provisional (I think the reason for it should be clear). It will count.
Bottom line is that fighting won’t get you a regular ballot. Being in the right precinct will.
First of all, no one is going to the polls who requested an absentee and didn’t get one, because that almost never happens. And second of all…wake the fuck up, Anastasia. The right to vote has been turned into a labyrinthian maze of obstacles designed to cull Democratic votes at countless points in the process. Standing at the ballot table isn’t even the last obstacle in that maze, but it is the point at which the voter has his/her only shot to fight back.
Now, if you don’t want to take my advice, as a former attorney, an international election observer and trainer in over half a dozen countries, and as a Kerry challenger who trained over 300 lawyers in 2004, then take RFK Jr.’s advice, not mine.
DO NOT VOTE PROVISONAL.
AND DO NOT LEAVE A POLLING PLACE UNTIL YOU HAVE CAST A REGULAR BALLOT.
PERIOD.
October 23rd, 2008 at 8:42 pm
I must warn you that doing what you’re demanding will only result in fewer people getting to vote as one person holds up the line.
1. Partisan poll observers are allowed so long as they don’t interfere. The Ohio SOS has made this very clear in the training. Once a poll observer interferes with, or even -delays- the voting process, that observer is kicked out (after one warning).
2. Virtually any form of current ID + address is accepted for a regular ballot. Even a utility bill or a fishing license is accepted. The singular exception is passports. Don’t ask me why.
3. For every one GOP judge, there’s also a Democratic and Independent judge. If someone believes they are the victim of a partisan suppression, all they need to do is speak with another judge.
If the majority of judges deem that a person requires a provisional ballot, no amount of protest will give them the regular ballot. Refusing to take the provisional ballot, and remaining in the polling place, will result in one of two scenarios. 1) The person will be forcibly removed, a la an interfering/delaying poll observer. 2) The person will successfully protest, causing long delays which lead to fewer total votes as others waiting in line leave.
October 23rd, 2008 at 8:52 pm
this part is funny.
2) The person will successfully protest, causing long delays which lead to fewer total votes as others waiting in line leave.
umm……..successfully protest? that’s bad?
that’s good, in my book. whether or not there is a long delay, the successful protest is what i’m advocating.
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Russo, the voting system has substantially changed since Brunner came in.
Under the new system, a “successful protest” is “a very bad thing.” An interfering protest reduces the vote total, undermines the validity of the election, and subjects the protester to criminal liability.
How does it reduce the number of total votes? Protesting only bogs down the pollworkers, which means that the polling location is delayed. This means the voter lines get longer, which then means that would-be voters either leave the line in impatience or are deterred entirely from voting.
In trying to switch one provisional ballot to a regular ballot, you’ve just cost yourself several other ballots. If the purpose is to get as many votes counted as possible, needless to say you’re shooting yourself in the foot.
How does it reduce the validity of the election? Regular ballots are anonymous and indistinguishable once cast. Each person given a regular ballot has met the incredibly low standard of establishing that he is who he purports to be, and that he is voting only once. The standard is there to prevent and deter fraudulent voting. If that minimum standard is discarded, even once, for the sake of polling expediency, and an improper regular ballot joins legitimate regular ballots, then the legitimacy of the entire ballot count is undermined.
Proving identity is not difficult, even for the unemployed and homeless. Just show a -copy- of a government issued document or check with your name and current address. Your current address can even be a shelter. Jennifer Brunner shows how easy it is to establish identity on her website: http://www.ohioelectiontraining.com
How does it subject the protester to criminal liability? It’s a 5th degree felony to “obtain by improper means” a ballot, or to ntimidate or interfere with an election official’s performance of duties. Ohio Rev. Code 3599.24. The Ohio SoS’s pollworker training course made this statute very clear, stressing that purposeful interference with the elections should not be tolerated by the pollworkers, and to immediately contact the authorities if the situation cannot be personally handled.
Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. You want as many votes counted as possible, the votes to be unquestionably legitimate, and the voters to avoid felony convictions (and subsequent loss of voting rights).
My advice remains the same. Don’t protest at the polling location. If someone believes he is improperly given a provisional ballot by a partisan judge, he should speak with another judge. The second judge will not be of the same party as the first.
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
dude, who are you? I’m dead serious.
you just put on my blog the entire GOP vote suppression strategy. make people vote provisional, make them like it, and scare them into being afraid to protest it.
your advice is absurd. and the next time you post it, you’d better identify yourself.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:50 am
My name is Matthew.
To prevent another reposting, I’m going to consolidate this discussion to http://www.plunderbund.com/2008/10/23/do-not-accept-a-provisional-ballot/#comment-106070
October 26th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
OMG!! Tim, you have one of the Gospel writers commenting on your site!! Congrats! You should definitely back off your argument now, especially since he didn’t see anything in it important enough to respond to directly.
On a more serious note: How can anyone honestly say that taking a ballot that will be segregated from the rest, subject to additional scrutiny and challenges, that will be attacked zealously by people who have a vested interest in reducing the number of ballots in easily identified areas and will therefore not be counted at all, and with especially given the firsthand experience with disenfranchisement of voters in Ohio in the last two Presidential races – how can anyone say that taking that provisional ballot instead of insisting on a regular ballot is acceptable?
[quote]To suggest that “obedience” to provisional ballot demands at the polling place is required, when the whole point of the demand is to reduce Democratic votes based on racial targeting, is probably rolling Martin Luther King over in his grave.[/quote]Not to mention Malcom X. Could you ever imagine him agreeing with the notion that it would be ok to vote with a ballot that would be “less than” the ones used in rich, white neighborhoods?
No second class votes. No second class voters. It’s that simple.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Look at this way, if the GOP smear fest is trying to use this blog, you must be doing something right.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:48 am
Is this what you people do in your spare time? Versus learning about your political leaders you decide to split hairs over provisional ballots? Is the GOP now a sect of the Freemasons? Some hidden agenda to cheat an election? I’m not even a member of the GOP and you sound like a complete fanatic. Take your meds lately???
March 21st, 2009 at 3:36 pm
I just wanted to say that I love this site